Forever Friends
Interview with Judy Wenger and Nancy Harvey
Dear Readers,
Many years ago I shared my story about Susie Stream, whom I had lost to leukemia when we were in our forties. She had given me a great gift because she taught me how to “be a friend, make a friend, and keep a friend.” The post was very popular, and I think it’s because the subject of friendship touches us deeply. Recently I attended a women’s retreat where I was deeply moved by an interview with Judy Wenger and Nancy Harvy, two fun-loving, lifelong friends in their 70’s. I’m so thrilled they’ve agreed to let me share what they’ve learned about friendship over the years!
How did your friendship begin, and what drew you to each other initially?
Judy: I was 34, new to Emerald Bible Fellowship, my mother had recently died from cancer, and my husband was playing golf on Sunday mornings while I went to church. It was a low point in my life, and I really needed some friends. I had seen Nancy with lots of other women around her, and I wanted to be one of those women. At my first women’s retreat, a basket of bookmarks was passed around, and we were to take one from the basket and pray for whoever’s name was on it. Mine said, “Nancy Harvey.”
Nancy: Our friendship began in the late 70s at church, where my hubby was the youth pastor for almost twenty-five years. We saw each other at women’s events, and I was drawn to Judy’s fun personality. We chatted off and on, but our friendship really took off when I asked Judy to help me prepare a skit to announce an upcoming women’s event at a worship service. Since she was a middle school drama and English teacher, I knew she would have great ideas. As we worked on it, we laughed and laughed. It was the beginning of our silly but sweet bonding. When we performed the skit, I was nervous and had lots of adrenaline. I grabbed her cheeks and said, “Judy Judy Judy,” like Humphrey Bogart or whoever that actor was. But the way I yanked her face towards me almost gave her whiplash! Poor thing! She has never been the same since!
Day to day, what helps your friendship stay authentic and honest—and how do you make it safe for each other to share openly?
Nancy: Our friendship has gone through some ups and downs, along with our personal lives. Real life has kept us real—illnesses, cancer, family problems with children, job stress, church splits, and our faith in Jesus. What has kept us authentic is perseverance and loyalty. Listening to each other even when it’s hard to keep your mouth shut is important. At this stage we have seen and heard the good, the bad, and the ugly and have also seen the beauty of Christ in each other. No one makes me laugh as hard as Judy. She can also make me cry with her kindness and generosity. I am often touched and brought to tears by her love and care for me.
I feel safe with Judy because she has demonstrated deep friendship, commitment, wisdom, kindness, and extreme generosity. I know I can trust her with deep, personal things and that she will pray for me. Honesty, patience, and forgiveness are huge. Being able to really listen, without judgment, to what the other is saying helps us be authentic. Both of us can give our opinion readily, but we have learned through mistakes, hurt feelings, and our own pride to do as it says in James 1:19, "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.”
Another thing that helps is that our friendship is not jealous or possessive. Judy has lived in Eugene all her life and has so many different friends. I do as well. We don’t get jealous if we’re not included in each other’s plans with others. Except, maybe I might have a wee bit of FOMO ‘cuz I love hanging out with her so much!
Judy: Communicate every day. Get back to each other if there’s a misunderstanding. Laugh LOTS! Do ALL the emotions together, even the hard ones.
Over the years, how have you figured out when to speak the hard truths, when to just be there for each other, and how to move forward in forgiveness when things get hard?
Judy: We are still figuring that out after 42 years! We express our frustration with one another and about one another. Be a good listener without trying to “fix” the problem. Speaking “hard truth” must go hand in hand with HEARING hard truth even when we don’t want to hear it.
I am often the one who makes a final decision when Nancy is indecisive. Maybe it’s from nearly forty years of teaching middle school, but I like to make plans, hear input, and then finalize things. I still tease Nancy about how she orders food in a restaurant. She often asks the server which is best, this item or that!
Nancy: In our early years we had a few hurtful moments, but thankfully our sense of humor and commitment to Jesus smoothed those rough edges. I, as a nurse, can share my thoughts too quickly in regard to health issues, and I always want to fix things. I have learned to wait to be invited before I give my opinion (most of the time). Although, if I feel Judy is in any medical danger, I will speak up. Judy—as a teacher, amazing drama instructor, and director—likes to lead and direct, which can cause a bit of strain on occasion, more so in the early years.
Through the beauty of a long friendship, we have grown to treasure our God-given strengths and skills despite our differences. I love and appreciate Judy’s leadership, organizational abilities, and her amazing creativity. Judy has also grown to understand my gifts of nurture and mercy and my desire to help (whether she wants assistance or not). Because we have both walked with each other through some very serious medical crises and some hard family situations, we have learned to listen well and try to not take our words the wrong way, knowing we love each other deeply.
Praying together is huge! God breaks down our defenses and pride when we pray together. There have been times we needed to step away briefly from talking to work through any hurt or misunderstanding. But because we love each other, and we miss each other, we are quick to talk it over and reconcile. I think Colossians 3:12-14 is good advice for any friendship. "Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues, put on love which binds them all together in perfect unity.”
How has God grown your faith through friendship, and how do you intentionally keep Him at the center of it?
Nancy: In addition to Judy, I feel so blessed to have some other treasured female friends. Those friends, like Judy, who know and trust the Lord, are my deepest relationships. Friendship is a commitment. Our walk with God is a commitment. Having a friend who is strong in the Lord really helps support my Christian walk. Judy’s example of trusting God through some pretty intense and scary medical situations is a huge testimony of God’s faithfulness and inspires me.
Judy and I have traveled together and have enjoyed so many fun adventures. We talk and laugh like silly teenagers. We often say that no one could keep up or understand when it’s just the two of us because we jump from one topic to the other and still know what the other is saying. Laughter is good medicine, and so that helps keep our friendship healthy. We keep Jesus in the center by reminding each other of his faithfulness and care. Knowing that Judy loves me and prays for me keeps me close to her and to God.
Judy: It’s easy with Nancy because she puts God first and prayer is a way of life, not just some activity one does on occasion. We pray together and FOR each other anywhere and anytime. I have learned more about prayer from Nancy than anyone else. You can’t hold another up by wanting to always be “in front.” To hold each other up, one must stand BESIDE the other. Let go of competition.
What advice would you give to women longing for a deeper, more authentic friendship?
Judy: Growing a friendship is a marathon, not a sprint. Be open to what God has in store for you. Be the person you are seeking in others.
Nancy: We are old now. We are the older ladies in the church. We have raised our kids together. Loved our children and now grandchildren. We have watched health events occur for each other and for our husbands. For the younger ladies and those not so young, it is never too late to invest in friendship. “Make new friends and keep the old; one is silver and the other is gold!” True, deep friendships do take time and can be a risk. You need to be willing to be hurt but also be loved richly. My advice is to be kind, listen, and find out special things about each other so you can honor one another.
Celebrate your friends! Find opportunities to honor them. Appreciate them. Write notes of encouragement. And thank them for the little and big ways they bless you. And of course, pray for your friends. Share with them your struggles so they can feel comfortable sharing theirs with you. The Bible has many stories of friendship; the best is that Jesus calls us His friends. Look to his example. The book of Proverbs has many words of wisdom regarding friendship. Here are a few:
"A friend loves at all times” (Proverbs 17:17). (Through the good and bad times!)
“A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother” (Proverbs 18:24). You may have many people around you, but be the friend that sticks to the other to help and support.
“Wounds from a friend can be trusted” (Proverbs 27:6). Honesty with each other can hurt sometimes, but a true friend can be trusted to give you the words and the help you really need.
“As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another” (Proverbs 27:17).
We are better together!
